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Running an agency? You're talented and work hard, but hey agencies, your owners are biased. And those biases can sabotage growth. This isn't a personal attack, it's a wake-up call. We're talking about common biases, like prioritizing pedigree over real skills, or clinging to outdated specializations. Learn from Adam Lean, founder of The CFO Project (a training company for financial professionals offering outsourced CFO and business advisory services), and discover how confronting these biases can transform your agency's trajectory.
Adam and FinOptimal share a passion for helping accountants make more money and have a peace of mind. Hope you enjoy the episode.
So you're on our podcast, but we did yours Escaping The Accountant’s Trap podcast. I wanted to start with a podcasting question. Is there anyone that you try to like emulate when you host the pod? Like wha, where do you draw inspiration from for how you kind of get on the microphone and lead that podcast?
Oh that’s a good question. I don't know, honestly. I don't know who I try to emulate. I like – here's the thing. I just try not to make it boring. And that's hard to do with an accounting and bookkeeping podcast. Because, you know, I guess the subject matter can be boring, but I don't actually think it is when you do it right. When you use accounting to help people grow and grow their business. It's actually fun.
But in terms of emulating, I really like Tim Ferriss and James Altucher's style, I think because they dig deep into the why people answer the way they do. You know what I mean? It's not like question, answer and then move on. It's like they dig deeper, and that's something that I'm – it's hard to do. It really is.
I’m gonna out myself – I have no idea who those people are. What podcast – where are they from? Jesse you chime in.
I thought it was James Altucher. I definitely am not the authority here, but I know who you're talking about. Like, I've read it, but I feel like I read something when Covid started, he wrote something about how – I can't remember whether he wrote something about how New York is really dead, or how it's really not dead. Do you remember that?
Yes, I do. He said – oh, actually, I know what you're talking about. He was saying it was really dead this time. Right. And then he came back later and basically, maybe sort of apologized or explained.
I haven't heard his podcast, though. Yeah, I'm sure it's really good.
Does it have a segment called, Jesse corrects the guest on how to say a name and then says, I don't remember exactly what that person said? That's a segment on our show. That's the opening segment.
I can also guess whether you've had a haircut recently.
That is Jesse’s thing, that’s why I wear a hat. I keep him on his toes. Jesse, who do you think you emulate? Do you think? Is there anyone that you draw from when you're hosting or just on the mic?
I'm always a guest.
Fair, fair. So The CFO Project, Adam, tell us a little bit about it. We obviously know what it is, but, you know, the guests listening to this probably don't. Just give us the overview of The CFO Project before we get into what is a CFO.
The CFO Project is a training company and community made up of accountants and bookkeepers and CPAs and enrolled agents that are all doing one thing: learning how to start and build and grow a CFO Advisory Service. Also, they can do this thing called, what we call “escaping the accountant’s trap,” where accountants, by and large, are trading time for money.
And to make matters worse, they can't necessarily raise their fees because there's a lot of competitors out there. And so the way to escape the accountant trap is by differentiating yourself from the competitors, by offering what business owners really want, which is advice on how to have a growing business. So that's what we do.
For sure. Advisory is a hot topic. I feel like it's something that everybody is slapping – "Oh I do advisory" as well. And I think it comes in a lot of ways, shapes and forms. I often give the example of, you know, if you walk around New York City, there's a gourmet deli on every corner. They're not gourmet deli. They just put gourmet to try to get people to walk in. And I think a lot of people are doing that today. So what is an advisor like? What is CFO Services and Advisory Services, at least your definition? Because I know there are a lot floating around on the internet right now.
Yeah, there's a lot of definitions around what a CFO and advisor is, and there's a lot of definitions of how you provide CFO and advisory services. And we are very particular in both. And we suggest that the definition of a CFO advisor - and by the way, I use CFO and advisory interchangeably. We often say CFO advisor as one word kind of thing, but a CFO advisor is simply somebody that a business owner can trust to guide them on how to have a growing and successful business.
That’s it. And I point out to people that I did not use the word CFO, accountant, bookkeeper, forecast, ratio analysis, budgeting, you know, books, taxes in that definition. Business owners don't really care about all that.
Yeah. And I think an advisor comes in a lot of different ways, shapes and forms. And I think, Jesse, we've kind of boxed ourselves in on the services side by saying we don't do advisory services, but that's and that's wrong. We start with a thought partnership. Ours is just more advisory in terms of like people, process and technology. Jesse, how have you kind of, as we've had a conversation with Adam on his podcast and, you know, I know Roman Villard made a good point of like, advisory is baked into everything we're doing. If you're advising, if you're telling your client you should be using this tool and your process should be this way, that is inherently advisory services, and you need to make sure you're taking credit for that. Do you think that's kind of shifted the way that we think about it and talk about it in our own role in what we're offering?
To some extent. I think that, at the end of the day, tools are just tools. If you're the tool maker, which we now are, there's that element. It's does the tool work and does it do what's advertised? If you're providing any measure of professional service, which we also certainly are in our Cass practice, no matter what you're doing, you know, to your point, yeah. You are providing a service and someone's trusting your advice. They're paying for your advice and therefore are planning to take it, or at least seriously consider it.
My experience is the longer you work with a client, the farther that trust goes. And it's the scope of the trust. If you deliver good advice on a very narrow set of topics, hopefully the ones specifically that they hired you for, in our case, how to set up a good accounting system. Then when they grow down the line, they're going to be more open to your advice on other things because you've already won them over. But yeah, at the end of the day, it's all about trust. It's a professional service.
I’ve noticed something interesting happening in the agency world, and it's something Adam and I discussed on his podcast, Escaping the Accountant’s Trap. Agency owners, often without realizing it, develop biases that shape how they run their businesses. These biases can influence everything from hiring decisions to client relationships and can sometimes prevent agencies from reaching their full potential.
One common bias revolves around agency experience. Where someone worked previously carries a lot of weight. Coming from a big-name, high-pressure agency might seem impressive, but it doesn’t guarantee better skills or work ethic. As Jeremy Carson points out in “The Unspoken Biases Every Ad Agency Shares,” your agency experience shapes how potential employers perceive you, but it’s not the only factor. A smaller agency background can offer valuable experience, too. Sometimes, a more diverse background can bring fresh perspectives and innovative ideas to the table.
Another bias relates to specialization. Many agencies claim to be “full-service,” which can be a red flag. Trying to be everything to everyone often leads to mediocre work, as Simon Cholmeley discusses in his LinkedIn article on specialty bias. True expertise comes from focusing on specific areas and developing a deep understanding of a niche. Plus, agencies sometimes prioritize selling their existing services, even if they aren’t the best fit for a client’s needs. Clients with complex business problems need objective advice and solutions tailored to their specific challenges, not just a sales pitch for services the agency already offers.
Recognizing these biases is the first step toward overcoming them. It's about being self-aware as an agency owner and understanding how your background and preferences might influence your decisions. For example, if you came from a large agency, you might unconsciously favor candidates with similar backgrounds. Or, if your agency specializes in a particular service, you might try to shoehorn clients into that service even if it's not the ideal solution. This awareness can help you build a stronger, more successful agency that truly serves its clients by offering tailored solutions and objective advice.
You know, you touched on two things here. And I want to get to Adam's thoughts. One is, you know, when you've spent more time with the client, it's more likely that they'll trust you when you see accountants starting out their advisory practice. Do you see them having more success going to their longest standing clients and saying, hey, I'm providing this new service. Do you want to be a part of it? Or kind of rebranding how they market themselves and going after net new clients with this new big pitch? Is there any bias there in terms of what has worked better for those new advisors?
Yeah. Hands down, if you have an existing list of clients, bookkeeping, tax clients, go to them first because they, there's all this, there's this established relationship here. And here's the thing. Business owners are craving somebody in their lives that they can talk to about business ownership things, they can't really talk to their employees, they can't talk to their banker. They can't bring home more baggage to their spouse, their friends don't get it. There's not that many people in the business – and business coaches don't, a lot of times don't understand the numbers and don't understand the implications of their advice to cash flow, which is the only thing that matters in business.
So the business owners don't have that many people to talk to. So when an accountant, their accountant says, hey, I was reviewing your tax returns, or I was looking over your books and I spotted some red flags and some opportunities, I see for you to grow your business. Can we hop on a phone call? Who would say no to that? Because business owners are craving somebody, they trust to guide them and tell them what to do to have a successful business. And if the numbers person, the person that they know knows their numbers - because a lot of times profitability, cash flow is a source of embarrassment for business owners when it's not doing so well – but when their accountant, who already knows all these things about them, is telling them, hey, I would love to give you advice on how to have a successful business, they're going to pay attention. I mean, it's the easiest sell in the world.
I think you talk about imposter syndrome as part of your package, and imposter syndrome is a big thing that we talk about here and our interview process. We often ask candidates about imposter syndrome. I certainly have it. I think we all have it. I think a lot of highly successful people have it.
You know, it's one of those things where, you know, when you come from a large organization, I think there are a lot of lines when you join, right? Thinking about like a fortune 500 company, you might join as the accountant. Right and your staff account, and then there's seven different layers in the accounting department. And then there's the finance department. And then there's this big hierarchy. And it's “we sit on that side of the lunch table. You sit on that side of the lunch table, don't come over here.”
I think it becomes very daunting for people to actually raise their hand and say, hey, I think I can help with this. It's like asking someone to dance at a middle school dance. Like, if you've never ask someone to dance, you're going to be really nervous. You're going to kind of stand in the corner and keep making excuses to go get another glass of water, I guess, if you're in middle school. But once you do, you're like, hey, that's not that scary. I think I can do that.
You're breaking new ground here with the breadth of analogy, but I do want to validate it and also what Adam said about how people crave the advice by saying that, I think being a business owner is a fairly lonely place to be. Right? The imposter syndrome is real because most of your peers are employees, and somebody who's got advice that seems relevant even if you don't plan to take it or you just want to hear it, you want some free advice at first.
I think I agree that there's a craving for it, you know, in terms of how to get it if you're starting out. I think that it's more about timing in my experience. You know, people, somebody needs advice right now. If you look far enough in your network, somebody needs it right now. And if you can be there well for them in that time, then you're going to get referrals. I think professional services like doctors and lawyers are mostly about referrals.
Interesting. I You know, we also talked about in the beginning that, I mean, we're like, there's no, you don't use specific words when you bring up advisor, and I think we've found a little bit of a bias of where we advise our clients.
When you see people starting out, you know, there's so many things that you can kind of put under that advisory spectrum. Do you think there are certain things that somebody must offer as part of their advisory package. For example, like some people may be more biased towards process optimization, technology optimization, where others are much more like FP&A minded, where others might have more of an M&A background. How do you kind of help people navigate where to start? Is it their interest? Is it their experience? Is it where what the market is asking for? Because you can't be an expert of advising on all of those areas right away? How do people kind of start to come out of their shell when they're taking on, let's say, their first advisory client?
There are many definitions of what a CFO advisor is and what they do. Adam Lean, founder of The CFO Project, suggests this simple definition: someone a business owner can trust to guide them toward growth and success. Notice the emphasis on trust and guidance. It’s about the relationship, not just technical financial skills.
Business owners often feel isolated. They can’t always talk openly with employees, bankers, spouses, or friends about business challenges. A good CFO advisor fills that gap, offering a safe space to discuss concerns and explore opportunities. This is especially true with sensitive topics like profitability and cash flow. An advisor who already understands the business’s financials is uniquely positioned to offer valuable insights and support.
This approach also helps financial professionals differentiate themselves. Instead of just crunching numbers, they become strategic partners, offering advice that business owners truly value. This shift toward advisory services can be a game-changer for accountants and bookkeepers looking to escape the "accountant trap" of trading time for money. At FinOptimal, we understand this evolution. Our managed accounting services help businesses leverage technology and expertise for growth. Explore our Accruer software for automated accrual calculations, freeing up your time to focus on higher-value advisory services.
Yeah, that's a good question. I think there's a couple of things we have to keep in mind that most businesses are small. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, only 9% of businesses make more than $1 million in annual revenue, which is crazy to think about. So most businesses are small. They're ran by business owners who are experts at what they do.
So think like a dentist starts a dental practice. An MBA grad doesn’t wake up and say, oh, I'm going to start a dental practice because I think there's money in and I know people that are experts at what they do, that somebody that is an expert in plumbing starts a plumbing business. So these businesses are ran by experts in their craft, not experts in business.
And yet, you know, think of like the plumber starts a plumbing business. They start out, they are the plumber. They're the salesperson. They get clients because they are trustworthy. They're the business owner and they're selling. They get clients. Then they add on a second truck and they have another couple employees, and all of a sudden they have an office staff. And then, you know, five years later, they're doing, you know, $2 million. And they have, you know, ten people on the team. But the owner mentally is thinking, I am really good at plumbing. I'm not so sure I'm good at growing this business and keeping this huge thing afloat.
And a business that is all predicated on you having cash flow. And so I don't think business owners really know what they're looking for in advisory services. So when an accountant comes along and just says, hey, let's have a conversation because I think that I can help you grow. And then through this process of selling the business owner on your advisory service, if you can make them know that you are a financial person, that you can trust to just guide you and will understand the numbers for you, then I think that goes a long way than starting out by saying I do these three deliverables for you every month.
Because that's just going to fall flat. People buy on emotion and they justify with logic later. So if you can appeal to their emotions first, the fact that they're insecure and they're scared, they're overwhelmed, they don't know numbers and they don't know what they're doing, and they have this real imposter syndrome. Then I think you'll go way farther.
Interesting. I think something that came out of there for me is, you know, they're an expert in what they do, but they're pretty much a novice in what you do. Right? Even if you're not an expert in all areas of finance, there's some way that you can - there's so much low hanging fruit if they haven't had this already.
I mean, this is something I did for one of my friends recently. He was a chef and, you know, he got a new job and they're like, food casting is really important. It's like making sure that we hit specific metrics of how much the food cost and how much we sell it. I made him a Google sheet, and I'm basically like “type numbers in here, and it's going to tell you what you're going to do over there.” And the entire company, their minds were blown. They were like, this is the greatest thing ever. I don't even know how they were doing it in the past. Right. Like once a month, they'd pull a bunch of paper and do some numbers and say, it's not that great. I don't know how we make it better.
And I was, you know, I'm a CPA, but like, it wasn't any groundbreaking accounting or finance. It was, hey, here's how you use a Google sheet to make your business a little bit better. And that little, like, freebie, right, opens the door to, wow, we probably could use a lot more of this.
I love that so much.
I'm curious. Like in terms of the accountants to CFO, the journey, right. Like and Jesse, I'll kind of go to you on this because you started your career as really a business analyst so you went from business analyst all the way to CFO. And I'm sure along the way you had some imposter syndrome of like, well, I've never. Right. So like, how did you - was it just trial by fire? How did you kind of make that leap? Because I think a lot of people that are kind of going through The CFO Project are experiencing a lot of those same emotions of, I was hired to do this, and now you're asking me to do that, and there's this chasm that I have to just jump.
How do you remember how you did that? And like, kind of like what you felt going through that transition? I do, think having a good mentor, someone who knows what the CFO is supposed to do and the management team when you're in-house, the CEO needs something, needs things from their CFO. Hey, this is what a CFO does. Here's some articles. You know, read this, here's a course. Take this course. And I think there's also. Yeah. Am I doing this right? Am I doing it? And, you know, maybe not definitely some of that imposter syndrome. And then there's also just, you know, the ambition and, and, hubris or I should say, just the brashness of youth.
Oh, yeah. Sure, sure. I'll be a CFO. So I think it's a combination of all those things, you know, puffing up your chest and, you know, dressing like the job you want, so to speak, and also looking to other people to tell you what they need. And I think clients do that too. Hey, this is what I want from you.
Right, you don't have to make the menu. They're telling you exactly what they want. Just go do that. I'm curious.
Yeah, I do think I do think, Adam, tell me if you agree. They buy with emotion. They do follow up with a careful analysis when they're thinking about the trade off for the dollars they're paying you. I think advice is a “when you need it”, it's when I need it type of service. Whereas the ongoing bookkeeping. This is what's nice about CFO services. There are things that you need more frequently. There's a quarterly board meeting. Right. There's something that's more frequent and regular that you can, you know, you can schedule service around without meetings. You don't want to necessarily fall into the trap of just being an hourly advisor. I'll call you when I need advice and then you'll I'll pay you by the hour. I'm giving you these deliverables. I'm throwing in this advice and it's a nice subscription business.
Yeah, but we do not recommend fractional CFO services in that respect. We recommend what we call productized CFO services where you're getting the best of both worlds. It's you're selling a service, which means you could charge a lot for it while delivering it as a product. Meaning, you know, you're telling the client, these are these are the five things I'm going to do for you every month. And the entire point is to ensure that you have a growing and successful business, however they define success and how we define success, which is cash flow. So in other words, Mr. or Mrs. Client, if I don't make way more cash flow than what you're paying me, then I would fire myself because that is my purpose here.
And that message goes a long way because you're letting the client know that you're helping them have a growing, successful business. And the word successful is defined very clearly. It's defining how they view success because some company, some business owners say, I want to be able to use my business to travel, say three months out of the year. Well, okay, so if we if I can help you do that, get more cash flow to allow you to do that and replace yourself with additional payroll while also improving the definition of what I call success as a financial person, which is you generating more cash flow every single year so you can expand your business, grow it. It's worth more if you sell it one day. Would you be happy with that? And they're going to say, of course. And it's very definable and black and white. And at the end of the year, every year you can show the client progress.
I like the idea of defining, like having yourself and the client define what success is, because I think a lot of marketing sales in that aspect as well. And it's something that I constantly struggle with as I'm talking about how to market our apps. You know, if you look at every app, it's just like “close faster.” What does that even mean? Like what emotion is that? Right. And you can't assume that everybody wants to double your business. Some people don't want to double their business. They want to cut their time spent in half and keep the business as it is right now.
Right? Like you said, some people want to go on vacation a lot more. Some people want to retire and keep the business operating without them. And I think defining what success is up front with your client is, is great advice, because if you just assume that it's all the same, you're going to have some people that are very unhappy with the outcome. Despite you being happy with what you, you know, kind of put into it.
Adam, what do you see as like the number one thing preventing people from starting down the path with you guys, right? Like, maybe they're interested in it. Hey, this is something that's great, but I'm not going to do it, because where are the hesitations and the breakdowns in that process?
I really do think it's a mental hurdle that a lot of people have to overcome. And I do think the imposter syndrome is real. I think a lot of people think “there's no way that I can call myself a CFO. I'm just a bookkeeper, just an accountant. I know, I know how to do taxes. I know how to do auditing. I know how to do bookkeeping. I don't know how to help a business grow because I've never done it necessarily.” And I think a lot of people, a lot of accountants out there, a lot of us underestimate how much we can help a business owner who doesn't understand numbers and financials.
We take for granted the fact that we understand numbers. And the only thing that really matters to a business at the end of the day, is generating positive cash flow on a regular basis. That's the only thing that matters. You could be the best bookkeeper, the best accountant in the world. And if the client that you're working on fails, then really what was the point?
Like you could be the accountant for the Titanic, and you could be recording the past. All of the ships now listing at 180 degrees, 250 degrees, 300 degrees. And then the ship sank. What was the point? The captain didn't care that they had clean books. The captain wanted a ship that was afloat and kept going and that's way more interesting.
And I think the thing that prevents accountants from doing that is this idea that they can't be a CFO. Well, can you be a CFO for Coca-Cola tomorrow or Microsoft or Apple? Probably not. You need years of experience and training to navigate complex business, financial transactions, to do that. But can you be the CFO for a $2.5 million plumbing company? Absolutely. Because these people need somebody like you, somebody that can understand numbers but can also care and have empathy and be a trusted advisor and have influence over their clients. There's a lot of big wig CFOs, that would fail at being the CFO for a small business. Because they can't get a client to take action. You have to have the ability to be empathetic and to be a confidant, somebody they can just listen. That’s what we’re doing.
Yeah. I love that, the imposter syndrome is really interesting to me. As you were talking, I was almost thinking, if you guys could do, maybe you could offer, like, some sort of, like, case study where it's like, do you think you can't do it, like, read this blurb and answer these five questions and, like, basically, if they get that, you're like, hey, guess what? You just advised the real client. This is a real scenario. You can do this right. Like almost a little self-test to to put it more tangibly like this is what you need to do. Guess what? You didn't even start the course yet and you can already kind of do this.
It’s funny that you said that, because we actually do that. We do free masterclasses. We do four masterclasses a week. Every single one of the masterclasses has a version of what you just said at the very end.
There you go. All right. So not that good of an idea. You already had it. Come up with something else. Do you find, and this is me coming from a place of bias. Because like when we talk to accountants and try to, you know, get them to use new software technology, change the process. It's always the situation of “this is great, I just don't have the time to do it.” Do you find that the accountants, you know, struggle prioritizing themselves, right. And their business over just checking the boxes on their client checklist. And how do you help them overcome that and dedicate time to something like The CFO Project?
Yeah, that’s a very good question, we get that a lot. Because they’re like “there’s no way I have the time to take on additional work.” Well the problem is, the work a lot of accountant’s are taking on is very low value in terms of what you’re getting paid. The average accountant in this country makes $73,000 a year. That's nuts considering the experience and value that we could bring to their clients or to their boss or whatever. That's very, very low. I mean, I was talking to one of our members actually, had he come to us, he had over 350 tax clients, and he was working like 60 hours a week during tax season.
He was working a lot more. And he's like, I just cannot go through another tax season. And he wasn't charging his clients that much money and they were only paying once a year, you know, for taxes. And he was hoping that those people would come back next year. Well now he completely sold off his tax practice. And now he has a handful, I think about ten CFO advisory clients. And he's making almost double what he was making with the accounting clients because he is leveraging his time for more. But I think there's also value in, you know, providing – I think there's value and offering accounting services while being efficient at it, as well.
Like I think if you're the only workhorse in your company then then you own a job. You don't own a machine that makes money. I mean, if you're a manufacturing plant and you are the machine that has to be there every day for the product, the widgets to be produced, then you're a machine, you're a job.
You don't own the job, you don't own the cost of the plant. And you need to develop people on your team and give them systems, which is what I love about what you guys are doing. You're giving systems to people so they can – the accountant can act as the orchestrator, the conductor. While people are playing the parts of the, you know, playing an instrument.
100%, that's why I think, you know, what you guys are doing is very interesting. It's very complimentary. Right. We're trying to help them in two different ways. You know, I think a lot of folks look at bookkeeping as a loss leader. I'm just going – I've, I've heard this from many people who they make their nut off of the advisory services and they go, “I'm just going to do bookkeeping because I know if I offer it,” – one it's all I wanted to control thing.
Right? Like, I know that the bookkeeping is done correctly, which I respect, but then it's also a I just have to do it so that I can also charge for this. And the bookkeeping is inefficient, and they're probably not making a good margin on it and they don't care. We're like, hey, you can make it extremely efficient and extremely profitable, and you can invest in these advisory services.
You can take over the world. And whether that agree, whether that means going on more vacation or, you know, doubling, tripling your business, all of those things are possible. You know, we like to think of ourselves as giving the wheels. Like there's that famous cartoon of the cart with the square wheels being dragged, like we're trying to give you the wheels so that you can actually move the cart forward, and hopefully move it directly towards a path of offering highly profitable services that better leverage your time.
Yeah, I totally agree. Bookkeeping should never be a loss leader. It should always be a – if you're like, you know, a retail store like Walmart. Yeah. I mean, I read Sam Walton's autobiography. He had loss leaders in the real sense. Like he would literally sell toothpaste and toilet paper for less than what it cost him just to get people in the store.
We don't need that. If we could attract clients through our bookkeeping or tax or advisory services, we have them already. If we're going to add on or upsell advisory services, we don't have to get them in the store. They're already in the store because – Sam Walton would use those loss leaders to advertise in the local paper that, hey, you should come in to get toothpaste for $0.29 – it's a very different world. We should not be undercharging for bookkeeping or tax or advisory services.
It should definitely be a profit driver, and if you make it more efficient, then you can. It's scalable because the definition of scalable means you can increase revenue without a decrease, without an increase in cost. And a lot of times when accountants take on bookkeeping clients or tax clients, their revenue goes up because I have a new client, but their time goes up in tandem. Well, if you can scale by revenue going up without increasing your cost, or payroll cost in time in tandem through efficiency, then yeah, you'll like the world on fire.
That's awesome. You know, I think to wrap up, a big takeaway for me here. And I think something that's been helpful for me is when you're going through a sales process, right. You want to understand what success is for them. You talked about it in terms of like establishing that with your client. But even when I have a services call, like the many of the accountants or bookkeepers listening to this might, I don't start by “here's what we do right?” I always say like what I offer and FinOptimal offers comes in a lot of different ways, shapes and forms.
And I'm not here to convince you to hire us. You tell me what you're looking for, and I'll tell you if I can help you. And if not, I'll point you to someone who can. But when you let somebody in their own words explain what they're looking for, you'll find the golden nuggets of, hey, that is – that's what they care about.
Like, yes, I know that it's going to take this many bookkeeping hours, you know, these systems and this advice to get there, but pluck those golden nuggets out. And I think even having check-ins with your clients, if you're exploring offering fractional CFO services, it's not just how have we been doing, it's where do you want to go? Like how often do you have that conversation with your vision of where is the business going? What's your goals for five years, right? And you might find those opportunities present themselves from clients that you didn't expect to want that additional service from you.
I 100% agree with you. I had a client one time, a long term client. He was a doctor. He owned an $8 million colonoscopy screening doctors practice. He was making money. His goal wasn't more money. He wanted to be published in the New England Journal of Medicine for his new invention of a new way of doing colonoscopies, and that was expensive to do, and he needed time to do it, so we needed to replace him.
That was his goal. I would have never could have never put on a business card or a website or a Facebook ad. “Hey, if you're a colonoscopy doctor, then…” That never would have happened. It wasn't until I asked him, what do you want? And then related my advisory service to how I could help him get what he wanted. That was what made the sale. Totally get what you’re saying.
I uh, Jesse that has me thinking of the expression we always talk about.
You know, I think that reminds me, you know, you'll have to forgive me, Adam. You brought up, you know, the colonoscopy thing. Which made me think of the Seinfeld episode about the proctologist, the ass doc, which then made me think about AASS our spectrum – accounting as a service. AASS. The AASS spectrum. Where we fall out and where you fall out are two kind of very complementary places on the AASS spectrum. I think that's a great way to kind of tie this whole thing together. Yeah.
You know, who knew a colonoscopy story would bring us home.
By the time you turn 40 or 50, you should have, you know, someone take a look at your AASS spectrum, see where you know… did I take it too far Tom?
Another Not Another Accounting Podcast (ANAAP) is our podcast where we interview industry experts about accounting, finance, and business advisory services. We created ANAAP to give accountants and financial professionals practical advice and valuable insights to improve their practices. For example, Episode 81 focuses on CFO advisory services and how to grow your accounting practice.
We often discuss the growing importance of advisory services in accounting. We believe accountants can set themselves apart by offering valuable business advice, not just traditional bookkeeping and tax services. Episode 82 with Michael Ly is a great example of this focus, discussing how to run a future-forward accounting firm.
ANAAP is designed as an educational resource. We want to help accountants and bookkeepers understand the changing accounting profession and the opportunities available, especially in advisory services. We also feature interviews with industry leaders and experts who share their experiences and strategies for success. It’s a great way to learn from others and grow your practice. You can find ANAAP on all major podcast platforms.
No, you didn’t take it too far. I think you could have gone a little harder on it. I would have turned up the heat on the AASS spectrum. We did an episode on the AASS spectrum Adam where – because there's so many things out there, it's like CAS, CAAS – it's like C A S, C A A S, and then it's bookkeeping, and it's bookkeeping and advisory, and it's advisory – and it's all of these words, like I kind of brought this up in the beginning, we have this spectrum that we're creating. And I think it's confusing to the buyer of like, well, what are you providing? Because I've seen advisors who do bookkeeping in a manual way, and I see bookkeepers who are already providing advisory services, and they're calling themselves bookkeepers. And there's kind of this like product differentiation issue that we have because people use sexier words. So the joke of it is kind of the spectrum and it's where do you fall on it?
It’s only a joke if you make it a joke, Tom.
It's true, but it's a joke. Anyway, Adam, anything else? Where can the people find you that they like? They like what you said. You know, they're interested. Tell us a little bit more about where the audience can find you.
Yeah, TheCFOProject.com. At the very top click on free training. And we have four different trainings that you could take. We do them literally Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday every day at 3 p.m.. And there's different trainings. Pick one and then we'll help you figure out if this is even right for you. If advisory services are right for you and your firm, or if you're an employed accountant and want to get rid of your day job or do this on the side. We even have a training called Side Hustle CFO – figure out if this is even right for you and then go from there.
Love it.
Which it probably is. Do it as a side hustle, accountants. I did it as a side hustle in the beginning – for years.
There you go. That's the final plug. Do it. Go right now. Do it. Thanks, Adam.
What is The CFO Project?
The CFO Project helps accountants, bookkeepers, and other financial professionals develop and grow client advisory services. It provides training and community support for those looking to transition into a more advisory role, focusing on helping business owners achieve growth and success. This often involves moving away from solely transactional work, like bookkeeping or taxes, and towards a more strategic partnership with clients.
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A CFO advisor acts as a trusted guide for business owners, helping them make informed decisions to achieve their goals. This goes beyond traditional accounting tasks and involves understanding the business owner's vision, identifying opportunities for growth, and providing strategic financial advice. It's about building a strong relationship and becoming a valuable partner in the business's success.
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How can I overcome imposter syndrome when starting out as a CFO advisor?
It's common to feel like you lack the experience or qualifications to offer CFO advisory services, especially when starting out. Remember that most small business owners are experts in their industry, not in finance. Your existing financial knowledge and ability to interpret numbers are incredibly valuable to them. Focus on building trust, actively listening to your clients' needs, and demonstrating your commitment to their success. Start with your existing client base – they already trust you and are likely looking for the kind of guidance you can offer.
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